00:00:00.000
A quick disclosure before we start today. Salesforce paid for my flight and hotel to be at Dreamforce 2026. They didn't get to see the questions ahead of time, and they didn't get a say in what made the cut. With that, on with the show
Eddie
00:00:16.511
The problem is building has become cheaper and easier than ever before, and you don't even need to be a developer really to build. And so that gives people a lot of confidence and, and maybe overconfidence that they can create this. And a lot of times, yeah, your V1 day one looks great. You love it. Then you start using it for real and start trying to make tweaks, it starts to kinda lose a little bit of that luster, And now you gotta add more capabilities, that breaks something else, 'cause you- it's not just the day one. You gotta be there day 30, day 100. You gotta be maintaining it. You gotta make sure it doesn't go down. You've gotta get other users access to it. Where are you hosting this thing? All of this gets to be quite expensive and time-consuming, and you end up spending more time vibe coding your CRM than you do running your business, This is DevOps Paradox, episode number 371, Should You Vibe Code Your Own CRM?
Darin
00:02:01.671
As a developer, some of us dream of starting our own thing, so we can say goodbye to the man, but then we hit the problem of sales and marketing and service, and all the things that one person just can't do. I'm still at Dreamforce 2026. Viktor's not with me, but today I have with me Eddie Clif. He's the VP and GM of SMB and Growth Products at Salesforce. Eddie, how you doing?
Darin
00:02:28.663
How often do you hear that conversation? Have you been hearing it from the… I mean, we think SMBs, and I talked to Dan Fernandez a couple of weeks ago, and he was talking about, okay, it's not so much the size of the business, but you guys think developers, and that defines what a size of a business. Because he said even Anthropic would be classified as potentially an SMB because of the bodies
Eddie
00:02:49.539
their employees. Right? Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think at Salesforce, as we classify the different business units that we have from enterprise and SMB small business, It's all by employee count. And for small business, that can be pretty large. But I think The products where I'm really focused on are the, the really small businesses, the startups, the solopreneurs, and providing them with the same technology and power of Salesforce that can help them drive their business as if they are, large multi-thousand person enterprise using Salesforce.
Darin
00:03:17.852
So I'm going to step into it now. Do you think we will see a one person, one billion dollar company?
Eddie
00:03:32.912
I feel like a single person, billion dollar of revenue feels really difficult to kinda manage and to kinda scale and support. Certainly like in an evaluation, you could definitely see that happening if it's something that's completely self-serve and product led they can check out with their credit card, they can do all that from an app, then possibly. It, It still feels like all of the marketing that you need to do, all the selling that you need to do, the service that you need to do Is larger. Not to mention developing a product is larger than one person can really manage and would need a small team. But, perhaps with the, revolution with agents, and now building and utilizing agents to handle a lot of those functions, I think it… just about anything's possible
Darin
00:04:15.582
these days. If you think about an SMB is the place to where you're gonna have agents because you don't have a body to do the thing. before then we would just outsource, but then that meant hard cash going out the door. Whereas now it seems like maybe we can justify an agent 'cause it's gonna be cheaper than a human, even if they're being in the US offshore to the Philippines or somewhere else.
Eddie
00:04:36.561
Yeah I, I think so. I mean, The, the way that businesses scale today is just completely different than traditional businesses, even like Salesforce have scaled over the years, where if you wanna grow revenue, you traditionally add more salespeople, more sales capacity. And I think that it's changing. The businesses that are starting today are gonna look a lot different than the enterprises of today in a few years, right? And they're gonna be doing that with smaller, leaner teams because they're gonna be AI native and centric, and they're gonna do more with less because they're able to utilize things like agents versus going and hiring more bodies to solve problems or fill gaps for their company.
Darin
00:05:12.013
Now, this being Salesforce, that's the answer. What can we really do? For people they're, they're just getting into the AI thing. They're not gonna flip on a switch and have an agent day one. Say it's a plumbing business, right? He's got maybe five, 10 people. And of course, there's solutions for those things, but he's thinking about, "Okay, man, it would be great 'cause for whatever reason, I'm in a town, and I always get calls from midnight to 6:00." Yeah. "And I'm tired of getting woken up." What can he think about? What's even a possibility?
Eddie
00:05:40.976
Yeah, and that's I think where really where we're focused with Starter is, creating that first entry point where a company needs a CRM because they can't just continue scaling the way that they have been. They get to have too much coming in, and not a great way to manage and prioritize and streamline all the work they need to do, or all the customer conversations they need to have. And so balls start getting dropped. They start actually losing out on opportunities. And so I think the goal we try to provide is, again, that entry-level CRM in Salesforce Starter, where somebody can get, get started for free trial, and it really is a, competitive and attractive price point for somebody that's just starting out. And then they know that they can grow over time. If they do become the next thousand-person enterprise, and I hope everyone listening does, that's amazing, but if, once they get to that, they know that they can grow and scale with Salesforce. They're not gonna have to be, re-implementing or trying to migrate their data. And so Salesforce can become the CRM they start with and grow with, instead of the one that they move to once they hit that
Darin
00:06:45.972
but- I mean, and that's an argument, right? Because do, do I really need that anymore as to be successful in business?
Eddie
00:06:53.786
I think it depends on the type of business. there's certainly some types of businesses that the only way to scale is, like professional services, is- by having more people that you can have billable hours on, which means you need a lot more customers and accounts and, the managers that go along with that. But certainly if you're a technology startup and you're building something that doesn't need a, you know, An actual salesperson to go out and get somebody to sign a contract to start using your product, then again, I think that's something that's uh, you know, Way more scalable. And now where you're not hiring salespeople, you're also probably not hiring as many developers, and you're not hiring as many marketers, and you're not having to hire all those types of people because you're using the AI capabilities to, create these agents or create a product, support the product, and can maintain the product as you move forward.
Darin
00:07:39.146
So that's what we're focusing on is the technology business. So, For me as a developer, maybe I'll get two of my friends, we build this little company. So there's three of us. We'd get the starter thing. What… And we're gonna start doing just standard go-to-market type stuff. Sales led. Not sales led, good grief. The last thing I want to… We're gonna be doing PLG. Good grief. Yes. Now, what's interesting to me is Starter is a PLG motion within Salesforce, right? That's right. Yeah. For pe- for people who don't know, PLG is product-led growth, which basically means you sign it up and you don't have to talk to a human. Now that we have AI doing this, we really don't have to talk to humans.
Eddie
00:08:12.526
That's right. Yeah, We've kind of had that at the heart since we started on this mission and building this product, that it needed to be completely self-serve. From the website, to sign up and get in, to making it super easy to get started and onboarded and start seeing the value of the product, to making that purchase, where you don't need to talk to somebody, you can just put in your credit card, right? And you can manage it that way. Now, of course, if you wanna talk to somebody in sales, you always can. We're not trying to stop people from talking to sales. We've just found that a lot of people with smaller businesses, it's just easier for them to handle that transaction themselves, and handle that the setup, all the configuration, just because they, maybe they don't have the budget, or maybe they have the expertise already because they've used Salesforce in the past. They can hit the ground running, and we try to make that as simple as we can by providing as many prescriptive out-of-the-box defaults and power in the, in the, the way it features across sales, service, marketing, and commerce, and as well as Slack, that can really create that solid foundation. It gives you all the tools you need as a, a small and growing business to be successful, that doesn't require a lot of implementation, a lot of expertise, or a, a large budget to go hire somebody, from a professional services firm to help you through.
Darin
00:09:20.627
in Salesforce, you've basically worked your way up through the ranks based on how I've researched. Did you start as a solutions architect?
Eddie
00:09:27.910
I did… So I've been here 15 years, if you count the about a year and a half that I was with Buddy Media before we got acquired by Salesforce back in 2012. And uh, so I started with them in New York, and then I went to open their APAC office in Singapore. So I was an account manager at that time, but then was really doing everything as I was kind of helping getting that office up and running. And then we were acquired by Salesforce, I did customer success for Asia for a year, and then I moved to Sydney, Australia, where I did uh, I was a principal solution engineer and then uh, an account executive for our social studio product. And then moved to San Francisco in 2015 and quickly got into a product role with Service Cloud. and yeah, it's taken off from there. Took one product, then I had a second product, then I had a leadership opportunity and, latched onto that and all focused around small business products. I've been building for the company now for, for about seven or eight years and it's, treated me well. I love it, led to a lot of career growth and opportunities for me as well,
Darin
00:10:21.958
so. I wanna rewind back to that solutions architect days You were probably paired with an AE doing your sales thing, but you probably also had a developer with you. What was the most painful thing you had to deal with?
Eddie
00:10:33.702
Most painful thing, I didn't have a developer. There was always an account executive. But a lot of times it was just understanding what the problem was from the customer. A lot of times It's, hard for a salesperson to tease that out. They'll tease out budgets and those details, but really getting to the, to the heart of what is the problem you're trying to solve? And based on that, "Hey, let me show you a solution that solves that problem." then once they see a solution that solves a problem they have, generally it's something that they're open to having contract discussions about of how much does it cost and how do I get this? And, what's next for me? And what about these other problems that I have? And so it gets to be a really productive conversation, just getting into that, first need and solving that first problem that they have that where our solution engineers are really great and focused and kind of being problem solvers and not just demoing everything. Really hone in on what the, you know, something that's a pain point for that customer, and understanding the products well enough to come up with something creative that helps them and helps them solve that problem.
Darin
00:11:28.978
So it's interesting because I was always on the professional services side, and my side was always… The, the joke I always had with my SAs was they are the guys that make the promises that I have to keep. It seems like, and it, and usually in those scenarios, it was I had to do a lot of different things. There wasn't guardrails in place, and it seems like Salesforce over the years, as I talked with Dan, I haven't touched Salesforce in twenty-plus years. Taking a, a re-look at it now, it's like, okay, the guardrails are there now that sort of were always there, but they were super guardraily back then, and the guardrails have loosened, but it's still tight. To me, where I'm seeing Salesforce today is it's a true application platform, like beyond whatever… And what he was talking about with what's in Trusted Compute, also known as my friend Heroku, thank you very much. Thanks for not putting it out to pasture, It's those kinds of things to where now it's like As a developer, Salesforce would be like, "Oh, okay, it's the point-and-click guys. They do their stuff, whatever." But then it's like, "Oh, I can also bring into my Java Spring app and drop it in now because Heroku Trusted Compute." There's all these other things. Mulesoft, all these things that didn't exist in Salesforce twenty years ago now make it-- All, all the things are there now.
Eddie
00:12:41.644
now Yeah. It's a really interesting time and, i'd love to get your take on how different the product is now versus when you saw it over 20 years ago, because it- it's come a long way. But I think that a lot of times people equate Salesforce as a product with that UI, with the Lightning UI and/or the classic UI, and really, that's just the UI layer, right? Salesforce is so much more. You think about the platform capabilities that it has, it's just immense, the things that we can do when you have that platform. You have Heroku, you have Data Cloud, you have MuleSoft. There's a full app exchange that people build to, and then they can extend the capabilities that we provide out of the box in the way of the UI that most people experience in their Salesforce org day-to-day. But I think, we've been talking about this at Dreamforce, and I'd love your take on it as well, but we're entering this new era of do you even need a UI? Do you… For Salesforce to be valuable, do you need the UI? And I think for some people, sure, but for a lot of users it needs to come to them where they're working today. the great thing is you're not losing any of the power of Salesforce, you're just interacting with it different. All that metadata is still there, all of your data is still there, And really, all we're doing in the UI is composing that data into an experience that you can do something with. What if Claude, what if Slack Bot, what if Gemini all had access, Through a Salesforce MCP to that data, to that metadata that, Claude and OpenAI, they don't have access to your company data right now, and they have, great trained LLMs, they're amazing, but they don't have the customer data, your company data, your process, your configuration, your workflows, what you've integrated, what you haven't. Salesforce understands all that context, and so it Opens up a new kind of experience and things that people can build. You've probably heard it called headless. We're calling it Salesforce MCP now. But you can really create your own UI, and we see a lot of companies doing that today. They're using Salesforce as the backbone, but they're building their U- own UI on top of it and leveraging all the, capabilities of Salesforce underneath doing what they need to do via their kind of custom-built experience. and some of those might be durable experiences, and a lot of times they're, they're kind of throwaway one-offs, 'cause it's so easy and cheap to build a UI at this point using a lot of these
Darin
00:14:57.476
I could argue that Salesforce doesn't need to have a good UI anymore. Think back to the '90s HTML pages. Just basic, give me the break glass if I need to get in. I don't need beyond that because if it's coming to me or if I can go get it and just the bit of data that I need, I don't need everything else.
Eddie
00:15:18.619
Yeah, I think there's an argument to be made there. I think that we… There is A, lot of customers that still want to have a UI from Salesforce, and I think for them, yeah, we're, we take the, the user experience super seriously, and you want that to be the best that it can be. But I think there's a, another experience piece here because if you're experiencing Sales- Salesforce through Claude or through Slackbot, you're not seeing the Lightning UI, But you're still interacting and, having conversations about the data, About your company and your customers. And so the way that that information is ultimately presented back to you on those services is, I still think, really important in making sure that we get that, part of your, your ex- That's now your experience with Salesforce. It's very important that we get that part of the user experience right as well. it's not UI, but it's more conversational, but certainly there could be some UI elements that can fit in, and we wanna make sure that those are the best that they can be, for users regardless of how they're interacting and engaging with Salesforce.
Darin
00:16:14.094
Salesforce. Again, I'm a back-end API developer. I could care less about UIs, and that's, that's just… I don't care anymore. So from an SMB perspective, what are you seeing out there? So I grew up in a small business. My parents had a small business, and I've worked in a number of companies that were 10 or less, and I've only worked in one… My biggest company I ever worked with was 3,000 people. Most were in the 300 to 500. What are you seeing now from… Again, you classify y- you think about revenues, that was one classification, but that's not how Salesforce thinks about that. I'm assuming your section, SMB section, is what's growing faster than anything else within Salesforce. Is that… I'm just guessing. Is that close, not
Eddie
00:16:59.706
Yes. Is that close? Depends? I, I don't think I can share any specific details. regarding- Okay. -like growth in comparison, but we're seeing a lot of great momentum. We're seeing a lot of great traction a lot of great adoption of customers. They're looking for an, an entry point into CRM and are picking up Starter and, as their starting point. We also just launched a Slack CRM offering. It's also a really great starting point, and all inside of Slack, also backed by Salesforce, but conversational and agentic, powered by Slack Bot, all within Slack. And so if you are, a two or three-person team, you might already have Slack, and you, that's what you're using to collaborate. Now your CRM can be there, and you can collaborate around your customer data, your deals, what you're doing in marketing and service and so forth. it's been a bit of a rocket ship. We continue on this mission. It's been going really well. I'm really pumped up about the future and where this is all gonna go in the next six to 12 months. It's really hard to predict further than that these days, but the future looks really bright, and I can't wait to continue to focus on and bringing more of these great experiences for small businesses and for entrepreneurs that are looking to get started and need something to con- a platform like Salesforce that can, to help them scale and grow their business.
Darin
00:18:03.333
Salesforce that can, to help them scale and grow their business. I'm surprised you can even predict six months in advance.
Eddie
00:18:06.035
Oh, it's… I even say that and I was catching myself as like, who knows? Like, It- I think back six months ago of where we were and now, like, where we are, and it's just, it's crazy the pace of innovation and how fast things are moving these days. But it's also really exciting because it, it allows you, you can build things so much more easily now that when there is a change, you can turn on a dime and react to that and take advantage of that, that market shift really quickly.
Darin
00:18:31.963
quickly. But can an SMB take c- that kind of shift? Big tech companies, we're used to dealing with those kinds of shifts, and some are successful, some aren't. Salesforce in general has been successful in that. I'm thinking about the mom-and-pop SMB They're not gonna make those kinds of shifts that fast. They are planning twelve months, three years down the road.
Eddie
00:18:51.589
I know it can be a scary time for a lot of small businesses and for, and for, you know- Yeah … a lot of the owners of those businesses as we go into this kinda next era of how AI is, transforming everything and, and primarily around business. And so that can be intimidating trying to learn new technology where that might not be your focus or your area of expertise. But in order to be competitive and to succeed in the future you, you know that you have to. And so I think one of the other things we're really excited about in Starter is that we have Agentforce in Starter. You don't have to do anything to set it up. It's on by default and works, and so you can just converse with the agent, or you can go into your sales opportunity, you can summarize it with the click of a button. It'll help you draft an email with the click of a button. And so you don't have to set these things up, and so we're trying to provide these kind of out-of-the-box, value-adding capabilities that those types of small businesses can take advantage of on day one.
Darin
00:19:47.595
Where do you see the opportunity for, let's say, somebody like me? I wanna set up a consultancy for Salesforce for SMB, and my target's gonna be the true mom-and-pop type shops. i'm classically saying SMB, not how Salesforce is saying SMB. What do you say to somebody like me "Do I even have a, a chance? How would I approach trying to build like, just a, a side thing trying to help people out?"
Eddie
00:20:11.178
Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a huge ecosystem there. We have a great partner community. I'd speak with them quite frequently, And I think it's a, it's an exciting time for all of our partners and for anybody that's getting into consulting because, like we just talked about, there are so many businesses that need help in making this transformation, right? And taking advantage of the, technology and the capabilities they can bring to their business. And so when I talk with folks it's more about how do you provide value, right? How are you kinda consulting and helping somebody harness the capabilities that exist that can transform and, scale their business and power their business forward versus kind of the more mundane types of… we would talk about like, implementation of l- helping somebody import their data or create a custom report or something along those lines because those are all things that the, you know, quite frankly, the LLMs can help with. Those are all things you can just ask Slackbot, "Import this file," or, "Create me a report about this," and it'll do it, how do you start to add value and get in this new era in helping these, these businesses harness that set of capabilities to, transform their business? And I, I don't think that that will really ever change. I think there's always opportunity for people to come in and help these these small businesses and large businesses navigate that change and help, them to transform their business.
Darin
00:21:26.637
'Cause I could see that as a solo person, I could help another company get that going without a whole lot of problems. And knowing that, okay, I'm a Java developer, I'm a Go developer, whatever, because I got the power of trusted compute underneath the hood, now Heroku, thank you that means I… If for some reason Salesforce doesn't have the thing that m- will help my client out, I know I can build it and drop it in there, and I'm not having to open up firewalls and deal with all the other stuff
Eddie
00:21:55.139
Yeah … and that's the power of it, right? bit, and they were talking at the keynote, and some of the things they're doing now… They- they're Anthropic so, you know, they have, they have their models and everybody's using it, and they're using Claude Code. But they use Salesforce, but their users aren't going into Salesforce a whole lot, right? They're using that, that headless piece. They're building these custom UIs, and I think that gets to be the power of it. It's like, don't vibe code the CRM, Choose a trusted platform as your foundation, and then build on top of that, and our platform allows for just that, and you can really build anything you want on top of Salesforce. But you don't have to worry about the data governance, the security, and the controls, and data access policies, and rewrite, and retention, and all of that's just covered for you, right? And you can use our, Our standard capabilities to can manage that and allow you to k- create value for your business by building on top of that with all of your customer data, again, and metadata at the core of it, that you can then compose in whatever UI layer you want And extend the capabilities of Salesforce to really meet Your business' needs.
Darin
00:22:58.872
If you were talking directly to a small business owner right now, they're still pulling everything on paper. What would you tell them?
Eddie
00:23:07.466
so you just got to get started, you know? I, I know for a lot of folks, the first step is sometimes the scariest one. Uh, But kind of identifying where are your biggest bottlenecks, where are your biggest pain points, kind of going back to my solution engineering days, and prioritize solving those. And if you are able to get time back that you're spending, you know, 10 hours a week doing some task, what if you got, seven of those hours back? What would you use that time for? Most people I talk to, it's like "Well, I'd put that, time back into growing my business." And, And that's kind of our whole goal is, how does Salesforce Starter, how does Salesforce more generally help companies get time back, get that capacity back so they can spend it on more value-adding tasks for the business versus doing, simple record updates or trying to, figure out something configur- configuration-wise. And so the more time back we can give that's real ROI, that's real value, and That's what people are doing with the products today.
Darin
00:23:57.102
today. Are you seeing a pattern of that first step in of what people are trying to bring in?
Eddie
00:24:02.573
Yeah, generally we see a lot of people that are, they're trying to come off spreadsheets. I hear that one a lot
Eddie
00:24:11.065
Right. And then they're like, Oh, we've got a spreadsheet. We decided a second person. Details are getting lost. we've got duplicates. It's just all kind of a mess." It's like, oh, wait till you get the third or the fourth. maybe you just need more complex data and you, you know, you wanna keep it clean. But that's usually where people are starting. And I'd say at that point it's like you're kinda late. Don't even start with the spreadsheet. Like, why not start even earlier so you can again, set that foundation? You don't have to pause everything you're doing for your business to take that spreadsheet and move it into a CRM, get your team starting to use it and get standardized on it. doesn't take a long time, but it, can take no time if you start that way from day one
Darin
00:24:48.676
Now, I will say, people will say "Well, I don't want to even put a credit card in." Do they have an option?
Eddie
00:24:52.938
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. If you don't wanna pay with credit card, you can always talk to one of our, our sales account executives can help you with any of the other types of payments uh, you know, options that we have available, whether You wanna use a wire or check or, you know, in, in whatever route. So it's also a possibility.
Eddie
00:25:09.428
Bitcoin coins maybe? Oh, not yet. You know, we, we get Bitcoin asked here and there, but, you know, we haven't, we haven't put that into, product
Eddie
00:25:18.756
Hey, you know, if you, if you really want Bitcoin, you know, let me know. We can take a look. But uh, yeah, right now that's not something on the roadmap
Darin
00:25:25.146
That's a good thing. last couple minutes we got, what would you say to somebody that's like, "Okay, look I'm gonna go Salesforce or I'm gonna roll my own. I'm gonna vibe code my own CRM," which you can do, right? It may be good enough for you day one, but once you're at day two
Eddie
00:25:38.838
Yeah. That's my advice, and I, I actually wrote a LinkedIn post about this probably like a month ago, 'cause it's something I've been thinking a lot about 'cause there's been a lot of discussion on this, and it's the old build versus buy discussion. The problem is building has become cheaper and easier than ever before, and you don't even need to be a developer really to build. And so that gives people a lot of confidence and, and maybe overconfidence that they can create this. And a lot of times, yeah, your V1 day one looks great. You love it. Then you start using it for real and start trying to make tweaks, it starts to kinda lose a little bit of that luster, And now you gotta add more capabilities, that breaks something else, 'cause you- it's not just the day one. You gotta be there day 30, day 100. You gotta be maintaining it. You gotta make sure it doesn't go down. You've gotta get other users access to it. Where are you hosting this thing? All of this gets to be quite expensive and time-consuming, and you end up spending more time vibe coding your CRM than you do running your business, when you could just start with something like Salesforce and start to build on top of it if you need something specialized and, specific to your business. And that, that's why we're saying don't vibe code ever. It's just vibe code in the right areas, right? And where can you extend the capabilities of an existing platform versus trying to recreate something that already exists in the market and has for over 27 years. A lot of times it's, easier to just go ahead and purchase the thing that already exists if it's gonna help your business move forward, and spend your effort and calories and tokens on something that's more impactful overall for your business and its growth.
Darin
00:27:10.189
Or you could argue, go ahead and vibe it, and then you'll appreciate not having to do it from that point. Because at least know if you vibed, it's like, okay here are the things that I know I need. And then, okay, because maybe they did get into Salesforce. It's like a little bit too much, right? Yeah. And it's-- But they vibed something like, "Oh, okay, now that makes sense," and they can br-- I'm not a Salesforce developer or anything, right? But I'm saying they come to, come to somebody that understands Salesforce, and it's like, "Okay, this is what I did. This-- I'm wanting to go Salesforce. What can we do to…" So it's better than coming in, but say, "I wanna be on Salesforce." That's not helpful either.
Eddie
00:27:44.770
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's certainly a way to start if you need to come up with like, kinda requirements. I think it's kinda a little bit of discovery of like, what's really important from me, or for me and my business, what features do I need? I think most people probably know that off the top of their head. You know, I wanna sync my email and calendar, and I wanna be able to track my contacts, and I wanna be able to see my sales forecast, and I wanna be able to track and manage customer service cases, or collaborate with my team. Like, Whatever it is, you know, and you're starting off with one problem today. The problems that you're gonna have as a company next week are likely to be really different. then what's your decision? Do you continue vibe coding, or at what point do you pull that plug and realize, "Hey, there is a, you know, an all-in-one platform out there that solves all of these really common problems that I'm gonna have early on and later on as a small business, and then that'll grow with me, and I can pick up and adopt those as needed," versus trying to continuing revisiting day 30, day 100. Now you've got your V2, V3, V4 of your vibe coded software so… but I, i, think you're, you're onto the right point, though, of what's the most pressing problem right now? What do I need to solve today to scale and grow my business and be more effective? And start there, right? But uh, just the kinda argument I'm making is not always vibe coding that solution for that problem is the best path forward if, there's already an, an existing platform in the marketplace that, does exactly what you're
Darin
00:29:00.409
All of Eddie's contact information is gonna be down in the episode description. Eddie, thanks for being with us today.
Eddie
00:29:04.835
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