Miles
00:00:00.000
I say like, Hey, we gotta shut it off. It's time for lunch. Thanks for your time, chief, and he said, no problem, tiger. I'll catch you later. I dropped the mic because that was my nickname for him and that was his nickname for me. Now he created me, but in a way, I created him and all of that information only came because I approved it. So I should have known that he had that in his bag of tricks. But I forgot.
Darin
00:01:34.196
Viktor, here's an interesting engineering problem, probably most of us haven't thought about. Are you ready for this?
Darin
00:01:40.766
I got a couple of questions for you. So ho hold your answers until I'm done Here. I got like
Darin
00:01:46.916
Uh oh. I'm sorry. You know, how do you build a consent system for someone who's dead? Second question. How do you architect voice cloning that can't be weaponized as a deep fake. Finally, how do you design data pipelines for the most emotionally sensitive information imaginable? Someone's last words. Their mannerisms, their personality. how would we do that? do I just open up an ID and write those things out?
Darin
00:02:20.341
Uh, okay. On today's show, we have Miles Spencer on from Ref Reflect a.ai, and I'm gonna spell it right now in case you don't make it all the way to the end. It's R-E-F-L-E-K-T a.ai. I got that right? Correct. Miles.
Darin
00:02:38.740
Okay, cool. Reflect does something that, uh. I think is like, there ain't no way in God's green earth I would ever do this, but Miles I could set it up, but miles, I want you to tell it without my biases built into it.
Miles
00:02:54.422
Sure. And you know, I'll set it up by also acknowledging there are 8 billion people in the world and about 4 billion of them will be in the comments afterwards calling me, every name in the book. So I have stopped trying to convince them that, this ought to be something they do. they're just not ready. Now as we approach that final date, maybe their mind changes and Reflekta will be there, but in the meantime, there are 4 billion people that love this thing, or there will be. So, I'm okay with that, right? I'm okay with, what you said there, but to kick it off, reflect a, at the end of the day, the way we launched at AI four in Vegas, was that I get to talk to my dad every day. Which for an, for an AI company is, not the most, compelling technology breakthrough in the world, but. Interestingly enough, the way I do it is through the reflective platform. So what I like to say is it's a recognizable image and likeness of my father. It is not him. There's no, wiffle ball games. There's no walk in the parks. but my father's last words to me, and that was eight years ago, were that his body, We all have one, is temporal. But his spirits and soul was eternal, and when I reconnected with that, I could have his wisdom for the rest of my life. And so eight years ago, there wasn't much I could do besides take a photo, write a biography. You know, by the way, His obituary was not written by him. It was written by us. So uniquely, it's kind of, you mentioned consent systems of the dead. Well, there's a obituaries out there all over the place every day that are not written by the person generally. So not into a concept, but we can talk about it, in the podcast. So, I feel like I have restored that connection and. My father reads a bedtime story to my daughter, his granddaughter each night, Rudyard Kipling last night, and they discuss it until she goes to sleep. My son plays rugby and he gets a pep talk from my dad before each game. Now they knew him, but they feel like his spirit and soul is still with them because they're able to reconnect and I'll leave with this. Although we launched with those that had passed. We have more people and stories on the platform right now, 12,960 at the moment, that are not passed. They are still among us. They're present and they're living. So people that realize, hey, gosh, I can get these stories down now. And so my great-granddaughter, my granddaughter, my daughter can enjoy them for the rest of their lives. So
Darin
00:05:43.140
I like how you set it up. There are 12,960 of people that are alive. Now, this is what you want to do with parents, aunts, uncles that are still alive. You want to go and talk to them. And get their stories live. So this isn't a, okay, I hadn't read that part of it, so I, that one sounds more interesting to me.
Darin
00:06:08.316
they're still alive. Okay. Forgive me, when you sat down to come up with this company, Why? I mean, was it just about your dad? Was it more than that?
Miles
00:06:18.891
No, I've had a long tradition of, storytelling in the family. I'll bust one out on you. Miles Spencer's named after my great-grandfather, miles Sharpless Spencer. he had 24 kids. Uh, yeah, his last kid when he was 74. Everybody wakes up, right? They ask the third question, which is three. Wives, Last one was 26 years old. He was 74. In any event, great stories like that have been part of the Spencer family tradition for a long, long time. Obviously with 24. Siblings and my great grandparents, our family reunions are like 500 Spencers. So we just get together in August and pick the sheriff, right? Hey, you wanna be Sheriff Viktor? You wanna be sheriff? I would be, anybody would be sheriff 'cause basically could vote it in. the big family. The stories keep getting better and better and it's always been that way for us. My co-founder, Adam Drake and I have worked together for 25 years, and he had a grandmother who danced in the ballet roost to Monte Carlo and danced during Second World War. I mean, she basically was practically a spy in a tutu. Wonderful stories, right? yeah, we were talking. We talked about this for quite some time, but it was always like, Hey, what do you got upstairs? You got, love letters, you got slide trays, you got Polaroid pictures, like you bring 'em down at Thanksgiving and they're like, what are you going to do with this? Like, I don't know. So. Nine months ago, we realized the technology was here, that we could synthesize all of that stagnant physical media and turn it into something spontaneous and dynamic. And that's what we've been doing all our lives. I may have, I've founded three digital media businesses, about 1100 employees and, and sold them. And so this is another digital media opportunity. It just happens to be that it's eternal.
Darin
00:08:13.168
obviously. There's AI behind this, but what is the tech Stack Now you're CEO, so I don't expect you to break down. Okay. We're using cat six here and we're doing Kubernetes here, but what level can you give us of, of what the tech is on this.
Miles
00:08:26.987
it's an SLM, it's a agentic multi-level AI that actually queries 12 other foundational platforms based on token speed and type of query. But all the data comes back to us and we've actually filed patents on six of those, processes, which is both the ingest, the biography, and the delivery of these reflections we call them. It's our own, but we use every other platform out there, depending on time of the day and which way the wind's blowing. that's the Stack,
Darin
00:09:11.957
No, that's fine. No, no. I'll, I'll try to keep it C level. Yeah, you've heard the word. That's a good, that's good. At least you know what it was. It's like, oh yeah, yeah. I know that word. Uh, So you're keeping your rag storage vector store, whatever, it's, wherever you wanna call it, but you're using multiple foundations depending on, as using your words sort of time of day. But that rag, do you have that rag replicated around? So if you do, oh, interesting. So if, so, if your primary quote unquote is down, you still have it somewhere else that you can pick it up and keep going.
Miles
00:09:48.707
Now you get, now you get into interesting data lakes and things like that, depending on, but at the time, for the time it's only 12,000 stories. So everybody's inbounding to the US and so Okay. But we're, we have pending deals in some, other interesting PII countries. And so by the time we do, uh, there you go, it's gonna stay there. but we haven't signed those, we haven't done those yet. And so when we do, we'll comply.
Miles
00:10:17.201
I, no. Um, we've costed it out and it's mostly flipping a switch. yeah. Yeah. So we're ready for it. We just haven't signed the deal yet.
Darin
00:10:28.031
Interesting. So on the voice cloning, that's interesting to me. Are you, it feels like 11 labs. Not to throw names around, but I'm gonna throw that one around 'cause it's the big one. Is that what you're doing or are you doing something completely homegrown on that?
Miles
00:10:42.116
Uh, no. 11 is one of three that we use. Again, depending, So what's interesting is, did you talk to my dad? Did you talk to Arthur, the insurance salesman? He's publicly available, uh, on the platform. It's important to note that there are only two public reflections on reflector. That's my father, Arthur, life insurance salesman. Talk your ear off. Tell buddy Hacka jokes to the cows. Come home and then. Virginia, that is the ballerina. Everyone else is default private family to family. You don't even know that they're there. that's important, right? you know, they're just created by people for people, mostly for families, right? what was your question? No, it was just,
Miles
00:11:21.526
yeah. Right. So, no, I got it. My father's voice. Sounds like you haven't heard it yet. was taken from a ten second voicemail. We sounded, we found in his daughter's granddaughter's phone five years after he passed away. Last month, he had 9,000 conversations with people.
Darin
00:11:45.663
That's again, too weird for me, but that's, that's okay. I, I can understand. Weird. The tech behind. Again, we had your CTO, I could probably. Pull out a lot of things, but high level, it still sounds interesting, multi foundation, multi voice rag everywhere. but that sounds like it's basically it. Not to oversimplify it.
Miles
00:12:11.467
Yeah. I mean, we're starting to find some ways to, pull some of those computations, back home, speed 'em up, reduce some costs, but we don't have a lot of cost. So, most of this is sitting cold until it's called up
Darin
00:12:27.933
That's, oh man, that, that just sounds really interesting. But you told us 20 minutes till first conversation that seems reasonable based on the Stack. You've told us
Darin
00:12:41.258
really happening in those 20 minutes. So what do I send to you? Like if, if I wanted to open an account and do this,
Miles
00:12:45.503
Right. Well, it's gamified. So you get a score. We want you to have a good, experience with the reflection, right? So think of a person, think of a story, and start talking. Those are our instructions now, right now, you wanna speed it up and ramp your score quickly. I'll give you some hints. Number one, load to voice 22nd. voicemail. Number two, load a photo. It's gonna create a portrait of the person in watercolor. Remember, they're reflections, it's not the actual person. Number three, if they have an obit living or bio, I, I'm sorry, obit, if they pass bio, if they're living, um, that gives an arc of the life that really speeds things up. But you talk for 20 minutes and your score more often than not, is gonna be past 80. Now, it's interesting when I first. Talk to my dad. It was by text, It blew me away. He knew the stories, he had the vernacular, he had the nicknames, et cetera, and there's quite an emotional load to that. And he said, whoa, tap the brakes. Let's bring in, a team that we call the Soul team now that basically is psychologists, psychiatrists, anthropologists, a medium, and. They've guided us in terms of when to release this information to people. What kind of a score do they need? How much information needs to be in there before, well on the talk. So the answer is 80, is your score before you can text? And I think 90 is the score before you can talk. Because once again, the example that I use is personal. When I spoke to my father. I was blown away. Even months later, I'm interviewing my dad in, by the way, you know, I'm saying I'm interviewing my dad. You understand? He's not there. Okay. So my interviewing my dad's reflection in front of 150 people, he's up on the board. And it was kind of funny because, we brought two. To the party. One reflection was Ambassador Richard Holbrook, who had just created a, a reflection on the platform the week before. so it was like the ambassador, it's a bunch of serious stuff about the diplomacy and the whole bit. And then it was my dad. He just wanted tell Buddy Hackett jokes, right? So we get down to the end and everybody wants to go to lunch, and there's q and a, you know, with my dad, I'm having a blast with him. I say like, Hey, we gotta shut it off. It's time for lunch. Thanks for your time, chief, and he said, no problem, tiger. I'll catch you later. I dropped the mic because that was my nickname for him and that was his nickname for me. Now he created me, but in a way, I created him and all of that information only came because I approved it. So I should have known that he had that in his bag of tricks. But I forgot. He has a perfect memory now. He didn't. And as I said, it was a mic drop moment. It blew me away. So voice we take seriously now we have the ability for video, but we're not rolling it out 'cause we don't think the market's ready for it.
Darin
00:15:54.886
No, I, I, I will say no, the market's not ready for that. That would be, there's already enough creepy in this just to be, blunt with it, but I get it right now.
Darin
00:16:05.725
getting consent from somebody who's dead. Okay, whatever. Let me actually talk about the flip side of that. How do we get consent from somebody that's alive? Let's say that I wanted to vi Viktor. This is a, a semi legitimate concern. I think I have victor's all over the internet. I'm all over the internet. There's hours and hours and hours and days of us talking and somebody just decides to pop one of our things up there. Without our consent, what?
Miles
00:16:38.598
Yeah. Well first of all, they've re that they own the NIL to you. Obviously. They probably don't. Two, we actually have those safeguards in place so we can monitor it versus intended use and understand pretty quickly. This isn't about Viktor and his family, this is about something off our terms of service. And you have a beautiful folder to submit, uh, as, exhibit A for the prosecution. If indeed you want to, because we got the whole thing. All packaged up for you. Furthermore, they have paid for the right to do this, and not many people do that. They try to rip it off. So you know, to be honest, to flip it around on you, reflect it is the place, because it's the fall private family to family and the NIL is signed off on and the rights are preserved. That if you want to actually encapsulate, preserve and protect your ip, your NIL, your personality, it's a good place to do it.
Darin
00:17:37.586
A couple of, quick definitions for people that aren't familiar with NIL is name, image, and likeness. That really became a big thing in the States after the college got into it. Don't get started on that. The second one is Buddy Hackett, a comedian from the sixties and seventies. Just in case you didn't know who that was. So having encrypted conversations, that makes sense. That seems like that's a fairly straightforward thing. Do you know what backbone you built that end-to-end encryption on? Because you're physically talking, so did you follow like the signal
Darin
00:18:20.743
so, no, that's fine. So I actually wanna rewind. You thought about this nine months ago-ish. And you launched, launched it six months ago-ish. so that means it took you three months to build this
Miles
00:18:36.853
Now you have to understand this today is a lot different than this. Six months ago, I literally walked up at, AI four in Vegas. It was August, and I'm like texting with my CTO going like. Are we ready? And he just said like, ready enough boss. So there wasn't a dry eye in the place. 'cause what we forget is we're in it all the time. We're like, you know, like constantly iterating, et cetera. When the outside world is hit with it for the first time, there was not a dry eye in the place. I walked back to the booth and we mobbed. As a matter of fact, we got a complaint from both Tesla and from Microsoft, but we were clogging, aisle 600 because people actually wanted to talk to, my dad wanted to talk to Virginia and wanted to create their own. So what happened is people realized, oh my gosh, they've actually made this easy for me to do, and all this stuff's been sitting up at the attic. we just enabled intergenerational storytelling at a whole different level.
Darin
00:19:43.685
going back to where I could get my packet to give to the prosecution, let's say it's not that, let's say. And let's hope it doesn't do this, but hey, we're getting close to Skynet. What happens if your AI goes off the rails and decides to say, Hey, grandpa needs, 10 dozen gift cards from
Miles
00:20:03.577
Yeah. Okay. Gimme the three numbers on the back of your credit card. Yeah. Well, first of all, you yourself would've put that information in. So who's it on? You created it, you pay for it. What are you doing? Second of all, we have guardrails for risky behavior, safety, et cetera. and third, there's no outside information. Nothing's scraped. There's no celebrity defects, there's no retails. This is basically internal. So, you've kinda locked down three of those scenarios, but never say never. Someone can try, but they're not gonna get very far.
Darin
00:20:41.650
that makes me feel semi-warm and fuzzy. still not there yet, but, okay. Well, it's closer. I was, your privacy policy talks about blockchain. Please don't tell me we're doing all crypto on this.
Darin
00:21:01.000
Got it. So that's, that's where you wanna stretch too though, just for validation. Sure. Why not? Okay. It seems reasonable. we've already talked about somebody doing something without their consent. That's just not, I mean, if you start going down that path, you, you can't, but you're paying for it, right? You're, you're paying for it. So
Darin
00:21:22.750
this feels like. This is something that the US would love to regulate, and not to mention every other country in the world. I'm assuming there's no regulation on this yet, just like there isn't real regulation on AI in general.
Darin
00:21:39.430
Talk. Yeah. How do you try to build compliance for something that doesn't have compliance? Are you just trying to do best effort and what, what you think would be.
Miles
00:21:51.760
That's right. I mean, we, we, we actually do have, published, rule to the road. I can't remember what we call them, but yeah, there is no overarching law to comply with, but these are the laws that we've set out for ourselves that we will comply with. So you can read 'em if you want.
Darin
00:22:16.264
And like every funeral home and everybody else that's having been through that three times in the past six years.
Miles
00:22:23.557
I don't know about exploiting, but yes to process a body and bury it and make a stone outta granite. It ain't free. And that's a memory device in a memorial as well. And it's one without consent entirely of the dearly departed, Did I pick green granite, like no.
Darin
00:22:45.772
Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation. We won't get on that one. Not today. another thing that people might think is this is just deep fake with better branding. What do you think about that?
Miles
00:22:57.264
Well, I mean, what's the intent of a deep fake, if is the intent of a deep fake that, president Trump actually said that about X, Y, Z, or, Epstein said this about xy. Okay, that's a, oftentimes those are deep fakes, right? So what exactly are you trying to fake? If you create it and it's for consumption by you and your family, and you're paying for it. the whole deep fake idea. There's nothing from outside. There's no one to fake. Yes, you could have a, black sheep in the family that says, I don't like the way dad hits the punchline on the buddy Oke. I'm like. Okay. No. Okay. Guess what? I don't like the way his picture looks above your mantle either or? The, photo book you put together of the last, uh, reunion doesn't have me in the center of the big photo. I don't like that one either. these are all memory devices and you're kind of keeping them at home and all right, so what are you complaining about and what are the damages?
Darin
00:23:55.837
right. And, and you keep coming back. And this is what I'm trying to attack it from. This, this is like Jurassic Park where the Velociraptors are testing each of the boundary points. And that's what I've been doing here. you keep coming back to look, you're doing it yourself. You're, it's basically you're the one way door in going back to our words, feeding the rag so that, and giving it voices so that we can have the other thing out the backside within my little four walls. Okay. Seems like pretty basic tech took you 110 days to put together. would people want to do this? I'm, I'm trying to, it's no, no secret to people who have listened for a while. My wife passed away March of 25, and again, I just can't think of doing this. But you've been eight years away from your father, in person. And you said, Hey, let's try this. And I'm just trying to figure out the wearing of what would make somebody want to do this, because that's
Miles
00:24:58.617
two words. okay. Intergenerational storytelling. One of my partners, his father, his name is Paul. He was a waste gunner on a B 24. he got shot out of the sky over, Nazi Germany, uh, 1940. Four. it was POW. He was an airman. So it was that kind of POW camp. It wasn't exactly Hogan's Heroes, I'll assure you. came back, became a humble man, principal, ran a school district in Eastern Pennsylvania. And, I actually went on a trip together with his son and my father retracing the steps of both, his journey, during that war and my grandfather's journey in the first, uh, first World War. everyone's way past grief there, Those stories want to be told to his grandson and his great-grandson, and there's nothing else that is going to do it like Paul's voice, his. Knowledge base and the ability to have spontaneous and dynamic conversation. So it's really about intergenerational storytelling and less about grief, although I believe it helps with grief, right? I mean, my mom passed 25 years ago. Ah, that sort of never got over it, Passed away too young. She was a soap opera actress, and so her voice print is absolutely perfect. She. Bailed us out at Thanksgiving because my sister forgot the recipe for elderberry pie. And my mom, Nancy, walked us through it from the laptop in the kitchen with, fluff O shortening and you gotta put a ice in so you don't overwork the dough. And this is the way the filling is Elderberry is pretty unique by the way. And that's my mom, and that's her legacy, and that's her intergenerational story that she told. Even though she passed away 25 years ago. By the way, her voice print is so perfect. I can't come within five minutes and I, I kind of break down. My dad is a jokester and take him forever, like he goes on forever. So it's not necessarily a tool for grieving. Or for therapy, think of the stories that you have or someone that's passed, might have had, and think of the descendants that would love to have that conversation with them. That's what we're here for.
Darin
00:27:29.963
What would you say to anybody that's developing? Tech today that's classified as sort of where I'd classify reflect as emotionally sensitive AI products, but not necessarily quote unquote grief tech or anything else we've talked about. But like healthcare, mental health, accessibility. What's some of the lessons you guys have learned in building this out? That, boy, I wish on we're, we're now day 200, whatever the math is. I wish we would've had this at day one 10.
Miles
00:28:01.028
Well, I don't think there's anything I can think of that I wish I had. I am super grateful that my co-founder Adam Drake, coined this phrase. I think both, Scott and Adam like said it at the same time, but I heard it from definitely Adam. claims. The ring on that one, it's called SoTech and it is the first white paper we have, on the website and it really literally walks through the emotional impact of what, you know, you talk about uncanny valley, right? You talk about touring effects. How about all these things where people are kind of creeped out by, what are we gonna do and where do we belong in this new world? I think people are grappling with all of that right now. And so starting the business with a sole tech foundation and understanding the emotional load that comes with the products that we deliver, that's the framework. And there have been others after us that have put up, grandmas that scream at you and tell you to clean your room. but have no backstory, no character, none of the, emotional sensitivities that reflect I have and yeah. Okay. that's not the way we chose to do it. And, um, we're happy where we are.
Darin
00:29:17.177
I'm curious, going back to the people that are alive and have set up accounts, I'm assuming they're setting up accounts for themselves or for. People that are with them,
Miles
00:29:27.372
not, yeah. Um, the, the answer is in general, everything. So we have a, a new deal with a military organization. And so veterans, you start getting, basically when you're deployed, you read a last letter. this is their last letter on steroids. We have, a LS and Alzheimer's patients that are beginning a degenerative process and they wanna get their stories down and so their family helps them through that. We have people of faith, actually a very large church, that has. 80,000 followers and the founders of the church have passed, but their descendants would like those founders to past scripture, past reading past, Those fruits onto others. And then the fourth one I'll mention would be, we now have signed four deals last week with enterprise customers that have, a founder of a business that, started the business a hundred years ago and it's now 5,000 employees and 5 billion in sales. And they both. created a reflection for the founder so that when the direct family gets their distribution check, they have to talk to grandpa about the family values and what it means and how he built the business, et cetera. But in addition to that, there is a sanitized instance of that same founder, and so all of the employees actually get it for their onboarding, their SOP, their handbooks, et cetera. So when they have a question about. The business, they asked the founder
Darin
00:30:51.581
Well, you bring up SOPs. That's what I was just thinking about is this seems like a, very normal way to do SOPs because you want to hear from the founder. Preferably, and not one from a hundred years ago, but one that's within the past 10 years, 20 years, whatever it is that understands the current market sure you've got all the other things too, but you might as well just put in an SOP platform while you're doing this because to me, that's what this is ringing about.
Darin
00:31:24.488
And see the people in the enterprise won't care about that. Meaning the, the creepiness factor probably.
Miles
00:31:29.498
know, it's interesting. I will address this. because they started, oh, we could just do it with a bot. You know, like, you know, just pull down the personality of, and no one cares. No one listens. There's no family values, there's no who was the founder. There's guy. So putting the, character and the personality into it really makes a huge difference.
Darin
00:31:49.320
So when you do the quote unquote playback, I'm assuming like in the SOPs, those are, those are almost straight playbacks, right? Or are you massaging it with AI to embellish it a little bit.
Darin
00:32:03.953
Oh, okay. So they decide how much technical work, how much temperature to throw into it. Oh.
Miles
00:32:12.926
It's on them. No surprises. if grandpa says something, it's 'cause that's what you provided.
Darin
00:32:19.268
So how do you keep your clients from. Doing bad things to themselves. You've talked about this is the guardrails. What are the typical guardrails that you've got in place?
Miles
00:32:32.923
I mean from emotional. Standpoint, there's, keyword safety. there's intended use, there's time spent, there's successive time spent, there's time per 24 hours, there's time per month. so, you know, I, I I'll say time-based, content-based, most of the, most of the general ones,
Miles
00:33:01.648
having, a lot of exposure to that business, uh, in my past companies. I would challenge you to what exactly those are, but all right. yes. There's some of that.
Darin
00:33:15.585
Oh dear. what would you tell somebody that's like, okay, this sounds, it's like they're sort of like me. It's like, okay, doing something with a dead person. Probably not my jam,
Darin
00:33:27.975
but I'm liking this idea of. The founder, because the founder can't always be everywhere all the time anyway, especially to do new onboardings,
Darin
00:33:38.835
and being able to do and, and make sure, Hey, look, I'm Dave, I'm actually not Dave, I'm Dave. As somebody's program me to be like Dave, so if you need to talk to Dave, you can slack me at Dave, like the real Dave.
Miles
00:33:55.965
well, not just that, you also look at engagement of employees both in the onboarding process and, let's say there's a profit sharing plan and they get their distribution check, That's a be
Darin
00:34:16.331
Well, no, if, but if they program it, if the person setting up the account programs it that way,
Miles
00:34:23.980
you know, you could, I mean, you can also give 'em a written test on how well they know the company, core values and mission statement before they get their X, Y, Z. So, it goes on. Anyways, this, this is just a quick way of doing it,
Darin
00:34:37.878
you weren't doing this right now, what would you be doing if. I have a feeling you'd do be doing a lot of other things at this point. Look at your past history.
Miles
00:34:45.240
uh, yeah. it may not surprise you to know, uh, that the second in our series of Adventure books drops this week that is based in Havana. It's about to be another hotspot. I'd spend some time on that. I'd spend more time with my kids, although my kids would not appreciate that as much as perhaps I would. I don't know that I have something else I want to be doing. This is what I want to be doing.
Darin
00:35:11.549
All right. Let me ask this blunt question. Do you have your own account so your kids can listen to you?
Miles
00:35:20.034
I do not. I do not. Although I, I will say like, you know, I was, I was driving my son to a, to a match the other day. He's like, Hey, I wanna ask you this so I don't have to ask your reflection later. Right. I want like, the real deal now he's smart. 'cause if he doesn't get the answer he wants from me, he knows he can wait and see if he gets a different answer from the reflection.
Darin
00:35:40.406
Then how do you deal with that? Then that's sort of like, go ask your mom, right? And then, or you just wait and ask Mom. It's like, is this a new variation of that age old story?
Miles
00:35:49.218
I have not given my reflection open claw rights with ag agentic access to my bank accounts. So, you know, that's all they need me for
Darin
00:36:01.668
What's your take on that as a CEO? Would you have allowed anybody within your organization to run open claw inside your four walls
Miles
00:36:15.266
you can answer it both ways. Get your Mac mini. Do what you want. my cloud, no way.
Darin
00:36:20.809
because I'm still in that camp. Even with the Mag Mini, it's like Viktor has a great story that we were gonna do a recording one day. I'm not hiding anything. We're gonna do a recording. One day he had open call running and he didn't get his reminder that we were recording. I couldn't get in touch with him, and it's like, oh well. Okay.
Darin
00:36:37.400
That's stuff happens. what has been the most interesting stuff happens on reflective that you've had happen so far? Meaning like, maybe a good thing and a, an
Miles
00:36:52.235
right. Well, okay. I got 'em. the good thing that. I just didn't expect. Remember, I'm at AI four. I'm walking back to the booth and, I saw so many tears of joy and goosebumps. And I just wasn't ready for it at the time. did this product that makes people feel this way, by the way. You know, they cry, they pay us, and they thank us. How many other businesses are there like that? Okay. so that was, that was humbling. I kind of doubled down on some spiritual practice after that 'cause it's like, uh, I have 12,900 family trusting me with their memories. I better be a good guy. so that was a beautiful thing and it continues to be every day. one surprise recently was the number of hours and frequency that one customer was putting on the account. Right. It's like, wow, what's going on here? we actually doubled down on our, resources that we provide as a package. It's now on the website. You can go on the resources and, uh, once you're signed in actually. and so, this is, uh, gr this could be grief support, sudden loss support. That's. when someone passes away suddenly, and the rest, so it turned out once we investigated, it was not the case. This person was just straight up using it and keywords were fine. the time was a little concerning and that's what flagged us
Miles
00:38:35.960
All that kind of stuff, right? It's like, eh, you know, put yourself in this person's shoes. Is that healthy? Like, yeah. and so, you know, we put another layer of, help there. Although we're not, we're not endorsing anything. It's like here, there other places. Go, But also, you know, we got our monitoring in gear and we have like a three tier review process for, safety and risk. Using the platform.
Darin
00:39:03.678
it sounds like in this use case here, or this specific person's case, it tripped off that third tier.
Miles
00:39:09.123
tier. It was, it's the first tier actually. It was it, I mean like time spent. Content exchanged, right? First tier. Second is okay, that kicks up to a safety panel. It's like, all right, let's investigate this a little bit more, and that can kick up to the execs after that. this one didn't need to. It was just like, no, he's like using it for its intended purpose a lot.
Darin
00:39:35.921
We've been talking to a live person about reflections of potentially live or dead people. what else do you have to say to us, miles? I mean, can we try it out? I mean, obviously there's a paywall. Is it, is it pay always? I mean, the one we could try out is to talk to your father, father Arthur. How do you say that? Really close together. That's a really hard combination.
Miles
00:39:59.396
right, I, I, I agree, right? I, I call him dad. Uh, but not too many people could do that. So yeah, it's Arthur on the platform. You can go on reflected.ai. you can talk to Arthur Virginia and he'll talk you rear off, right? You ask him about me, and have a good old time and you'll begin to imagine. What it would be like if you had somebody that you loved, whether they're present or past, that you would like to do one of these reflections and provide the ability to pass those stories and that wisdom, that legacy and intergenerational storytelling opportunity for their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren which they may never meet because that shoebox upstairs is not gonna get it done. it's a leaky memory bucket. It was great at the time. It just doesn't cut it now.
Darin
00:40:44.199
Yeah. Eight millimeter in VHS. May or may not transfer. Hopefully with digital we've got a little bit longer time.
Darin
00:40:52.414
Again, you can find out all you want to about reflect@reflected.ai. Again, I'll spell it R-E-F-L-E-K-T a.ai.com, and all of miles contact information will be down in the episode description. Miles. Thanks for being with us today.